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- 积分
- 7184
- 威望
- 7164
- 金圆券
- 13882 PB
- 小红花
- 248
- 臭鸡蛋
- 25
- 法币
- 4540 FB
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发表于 2018-6-16 16:33
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EU 罗马 攻略第5章 政体篇 2
本帖最后由 kong12 于 2018-7-26 13:03 编辑
第四部分 共和制续
五、元老院与各派系当权
1、元老院席位
1)、派系吸引力 Faction attraction : 影响元老院席位的增减,席位是一年一变,吸引力最高的派系会每月获得元老院新席位,而其它派系都会失去元老院席位。
Attraction is a percentage value that shows how much that faction will grow in the following months. The faction with the highest attraction will gain senators in the following months, while the other factions will lose senators.
2)、少数派吸引力加成
When a faction drops below 10 senators, they start gaining "Opposition". This accumulates (at a rate I haven't yet figured out) until the faction is back up above 10 again.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/f ... age-5#post-13195231
派系的席位少于10个就会有吸引力的反对加成,最高时民粹派1席位居然吸引力加成+30,加上我不停打仗,民粹派吸引力有80,同样的军事派吸引力也有60,但是他们的席位加的好慢。
貌似派系在元老院席位增减是按百分比计算的,即降得时候减得很快,加的时候很慢,像我的罗马开局5年后军事派、民粹派席位都跌到个位数,虽然以后都常年派系吸引力都很高,
假如不考虑官员加成,经常是开局后商业派和宗教派席位因为商路活跃和祈祷而暴涨,其他三派大跌,但是派系席位跌到10以下后,三派出了反对加成,但支持率还没超过宗教派时,
席位减得快反而是派系吸引力低于商业派的宗教派。的确,席位是固定的,但是扣减席位不可能是简单的平均扣。
3)、派系吸引力计算:
阁员吸引力 = (科研官里的本派系成员 魅力-1)之和 + (监察官里的本派系成员魅力-1)*2)之和
军事派系吸引力 = (本派系领袖魅力-1) + 阁员吸引力 + (军队数量大 陆军超限1是1) + 少数派吸引力加成
商业派系吸引力 = (本派系领袖魅力-1) + 阁员吸引力 + (贸易路线全开 30) + 少数派吸引力加成
宗教派系吸引力 = (本派系领袖魅力-1) + 阁员吸引力 + (祈祷并成功15) + 少数派吸引力加成
公民派系吸引力 = (本派系领袖魅力-1) + 阁员吸引力 + (省份建筑多 6到不等) + (奴隶百分比低 奴百22%是 15) + 少数派吸引力加成
民粹派系吸引力 = ((本派系领袖魅力-1)*4) + 阁员吸引力 + (其他派系没做的事情) + 少数派吸引力加成
Charismatic characters in important positions will influence the composition of the senate.
4)、如何提高派系吸引力
想提高派系吸引力的派系,把7个阁员特别是监察官都弄成该派系且尽量放魅力高的。顺序是 监察官>科研官>总督, 将领随意。
If you want a specific faction in power, the best way to do this would be to fill as many government positions with characters from that faction, especially the position of Censor who gives a very large bonus.
本派系领袖一定要魅力高;民粹派派系只要领袖魅力到4,马上打入大牢或暗杀。其它的是9打入大牢或暗杀。
把年轻的民粹派(魅力起码8且对民粹派信仰高)打入大牢,以免他将来成为民粹派领袖给我找麻烦。
https://eurome.paradoxwikis.com/Rome
The populist faction leader's Charisma value has a higher impact on his faction's attraction value than any other.
Other factions gain a bonus equal to (charisma -1)*1, populists instead get a bonus equal to (charisma -1)*4.
So, a Military leader with 5 Charisma would only give a bonus of 4%, while a Populist leader with 5 Charisma would give a bonus of 16%.
As a general rule of thumb, it's best to avoid having populist leaders with a Charisma level greater than 4.
Just imprison any populist leader who is too influential, it's far safer than trying to assassinate them (less of a Tyranny penalty).
想提高派系吸引力的派系,军事派让军队超限并凯旋、商业派开满商路、公民派大兴土木解放奴隶、宗教派年年祈祷保持度并杀猪、民粹派长期和平
- A recent triumph now strengthens the Military faction
- A recent sacrifice now strengthens the Religious faction
- Long period of peace is now a Populist influence factor instead of Military
另外,帮人物完成心愿,也会大多数情况下提高执政官所在派系的派系吸引力。
Also worth mentioning is that if you hover your mouse over a citizen portrait in the character browser it will reveal their ambition. If you manage to fulfill those ambitions the characters will get a stat, loyalty and faction adherence bonus (most of the time to the Consul faction but there is some exception) .
5)、派系影响 Faction Influence :派系影响就是元老院席位,席位达到50以上的派系在元老院当权。
6)、元老院任命阁员和总督:
如果接受了元老院的提名任命职位的话,而当前的官员未满任期,他就会降低忠诚度和家族威望。
The senate or Council if Monarchy will take control of the government. They will appoint magistrates and governors.
If you accept the senate’s choice, and the term of current plebian in office isn’t up, the character will loose loyalty and family prestige.
如果拒绝了元老院提名任命职位的话,无论拒绝了哪个派系的提名,结果都会增加民粹党的派系吸引力。
The way I've found to prevent the Populist (or any other faction) feedback loop you describe is to manually shift characters between jobs so that there are never jobs with characters who have served a full term. If there is an hour glass icon over the portrait of the character with the job, the Senate cannot ask you to appoint someone.
3、民粹派 Populist Faction
1)、民粹派当权执政的坏处
民粹派反对你的一切外交行动,除了和谈。
如果民粹派在元老院当权,而执政官不是民粹派,很可能民粹派会发动内战,民粹派席位越多,内战越大概率发生。
As the populists gain more support the risks of a populist civilization war increase.
其它党派执政都会增加收益,只有民粹党执政是增加不稳定因素。(对比现实,德国四处侵略结果被国际围殴而败,苏联是成为超级大国后莫名其妙自己垮掉,游戏跟现实的对比也是很有趣的)
民粹派执政后,会出事件:马上增加3个民粹派席位 或者 2个民粹派席位 加强制任命 一个民粹派阁员。
Once you get a populist consul your doomed because the way some events were scripted; it offers:
A) 3 populist senators or B) 3 populist senators –1, plus forces you to put someone in power (usually a populist).
The second choice may give you more populists because you appointed one to a power job. Then you end up with only populist being elected Consul and there’s no way out of it.
2)、民粹派席位多的原因
16岁的人物的心愿是要求不符合他们年龄的官职,因此,当他们成年后,就成为民粹派。
Only reason why populists dominate in unmodified VV is; 16-year-olds want titles that are impossible to give them. So, by the time they are usable, they become populists.
民粹派领袖的魅力对派系吸引力的加成太不公平,还有少数派吸引力加成。
Populist get unfair Charisma bonus to senate influence (top that with opposition influence!) so, they tend to get all new citizens even with the age mod.
民粹派是特殊的存在,如果拒绝了元老院提名任命职位的话,无论拒绝了哪个派系的提名,结果都会增加民粹党的派系吸引力。
3)、压制民粹派 http://bbs.52pcgame.net/oldbbs/f ... read&tid=298742
把民粹派的席位控制在25下是比较容易的,压制任何派系都同理,方法如下
最重要的是不要让民粹派获得任何阁员的职位,特别是监察官。
The biggest thing you need to do is prevent populists from getting into any office (especially Censor),
提高本派系吸引力(见上)、让民粹派转党,避免民粹派当权元老院;
提高自己要的候选人人气、家族威望,最好就是候选人本派系领袖,并压低民粹派候选人人气、家族威望(不知道暗杀和监禁能对候选人用不) ,避免民粹派当选执政官;
还可直接把民粹派人物打入大牢、派他们去当间谍期望被别国抓杀
You can take a populist and imprison him, which results in tyranny and maybe a civil war.
You can use populist for subverting enemy in the hopes they will be captured.
你还可以花钱让民粹派人物自己搞自己,暗杀啊、破坏名誉啊什么的。
You can use populist for subverting your other populist by smearing reputation or assassination, which costs money.
4)、官坛关于压制民粹派的帖子
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/f ... page-2#post-9713898
科技0的时候,压制民粹派很难。Just as a discussion filler, I've noticed that its harder to keep the populists at bay at the earliest time frame because you don't have many trade routes or lack of buildings which help the Merchant and Civic factions respectively.
一旦科技到1了,就容易对付了。So once you reach tech levels of at least 1 for everything, it becomes easier to deal with them.
例如我当前,罗马历 520年,议员席位是 军事派40席,商业派11席,宗教派10席,公民派40席,民粹派 9席。
That said, my current republic of 520AV has about 40 military, 11 Merchant, 10 Religious, 30 Civic and 9 Populist and I started at the earliest start date.
我打过两次内战,把民粹派的执政官候选人打掉了候选资格。通常我的做法是把民粹派和他们的朋友全都解职和监禁。
I've only gone through 2 civil wars removing a Populist candidate in line for consul, but it wasn't so bad. Usually what I do is remove all populists from power (and any friend of the populist in question) and then throw him in Jail.
我还把年轻的民粹派(魅力起码8且对民粹派信仰高)打入大牢,以免他将来成为民粹派领袖给我找麻烦。
I also throw any young Populists with high conviction and high charisma (say 8 or higher) in jail for preemptive future populist leaders who might cause trouble.
还有技巧,就是给所有无官职无头衔的人一个荣誉头衔,不管他们是否有心愿想要。不过要确保要把特殊的头衔给特殊的人,让他们对民粹派信仰降低。
But the trick is to give everyone the minor titles to everyone whether they want one or not, but make sure to give the specific ones to the populists first so their conviction moves away from populism.
任何时候,只要有人心愿是当科技官,我都帮他满足。任何时候,只要有人心愿是当总督且有高属性,我也满足他,这样他可以获得加点以便担任其他官职和获取名声往上爬。
Also I cycle everyone the tech positions as soon as someone wants it and when it becomes available without penalties. And I also cycle everyone through governorship with good stats so they become elegible for other positions and have higher prominence.
5)、民粹派内战的爆发条件 https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/f ... age-4#post-10642164
民粹派必须在元老院派系影响最大就是当权,且执政官非民粹派,民粹派就会有概率发动内战,民粹派派系影响越大越容易发动。
To get a populist civil war, the populists need to hold the majority of the senate but have a non-populist consul - but even then, it's not particularly likely. I'm afraid there is no way to manually trigger a populist civil war otherwise.
Populist civil wars generally don't have much in the way of military backing (unless there are lots of units loyal to a populist commander), so I'd say they're probably easier to defeat than normal civil wars. Otherwise, they're virtually the same (except for rebalancing the senate as you've noted).
想让民粹派内战更快爆发,就要不停降低民粹派人物的忠诚度比如1年就解职。还可以通过监禁提高暴政值以加速内战发生。注意先把忠诚度低的将领解职。
Rotate the populist in power before their turn is up (keep them for one year). Do it again and again. Loyalty drops.
If you imprison, tyranny goes up which leads to civil war. Remove disloyal Legates.
把占据官职的民粹派领袖关进大牢,会引发普通内战。
Imprisoning a populist leader in an important position will lead to a normal civil war.
5)、压制民粹派最快的办法:让其在元老院掌权,执政官不能是民粹派,等他爆发民粹派内战并打赢,就会来一次大清洗。
Forcing a Populist Civil War will probably be the quickest method to deal with them: let them take the majority of seats in the Senate and get a non-populist as Consul, and there's a chance that the pops will start a civil war.
4、军事派 Military Faction
将全部军事派人物任命阁员、授予头衔、尽量提高其人气值。
Assign all your military plebeians to office as soon as you can. Give them titles, and do battles to raise their popularity.
为提高军事派吸引力,留自己的核心给别国,不要去要回来。这样总是有宣战理由。
To keep attraction to MF: you must care 'lovingly' for every territorial-caucus belli, i.e. a core province of you that belongs to another state. NEVER take them in eventual peace negotiations.
Plus: - 5% support for the MF for each core-province belonging to another state (or maybe for each state owning a core-province of you?)
- A pretty caucus -belli to wage war without stability cost.
Minus: You'll get, eventually, the mission of recovering 'the land of our fathers' and the penalty of failing (you MUST fail), usually stability.
5、商业派 Mercantile Faction (needs review)
提高商业派吸引力很容易,关闭全部商路,这样很快商业派吸引力就上去了。
Tip: you can promote the merchant party easily, simply by having no trade routes (or almost no trade routes). But this will cost you!
I also believe Roads should come at an earlier level of technology. While it might be a historical, in game terms it leads to a great many unfilled trade slots which in a Republic causes Mercantile dominance.
Yeah, looks like the Mercantile faction is pretty broken at the moment. Especially when you get the discoveries that increase your global trading slots before you even have access to roads; it makes filling all the trade routes in landlocked provinces almost impossible.
The mercantilist real problem comes after you discover 'Trading opportunities' (Naval Tech 7). You get, instantly, one trade route more in each province. From then onwards, MF has at least 40% (usually 60%) senate support, and quickly you have an almost totally Mercantilist Senate.
The only way I've been able to counter that is by rearranging all of my trade routes from scratch.
6、公民派 Civic Faction
提高公民派派吸引力也容易,让其他派的牛人长期担任总督,这些牛人都会慢慢转到公民派(每年对公民派信仰+6)。
Having the Civics in power is good for expansion.
Generally speaking the civic faction reduces corruption, rivals, and revolt risk. After you have conquered a country, the provinces begin revolting for their former government.
Put the civic faction in power to reduce the provinces from revolting on the basis of nationalization.
By using a Consul of the civic faction to lead the senate, it will give you reduced costs, build time, and a boost in trade.
7、宗教派 Religious Faction
将全部宗教派派人物任命阁员、授予头衔、尽量提高其人气值。
As a Republic, try to keep your limited religious leaders elected as magistrates. Use the character as Legates to increase popularity and loyalty. Fleets are safer.
理念里选择加强祈祷成功率的
Take the National Idea Penalty and choose concept which increase the chance of an Omen.
多造庙。
Build temples when you can, but don’t forget forums are just ahead of them in the priority list.
The religious faction reduces revolt risk and has the National Oracle, which increases your stability, and the Divine Right, which increases your Omen success.
8、派系选择总结
http://bbs.52pcgame.net/oldbbs/f ... read&tid=298569
军事派做大的话...那和独裁没什么区别了(军人统治)...民主政体必定不能让 军事派 做大...其实罗马还是比较真实的...军事派想在共和条件下 做大 ,阻力还是很大的...
除非常年的战争 和 庞大的军队..让共和国的权利逐渐落到军人手里.. 虽然军事派的加成很利于战争,但是容易不稳,外交也容易卡住。
商业派领袖当执政官宣战阻力少加贸易收入,况且商路铺满就能加30%派系吸引力,可以留席位给公民派、宗教派。感觉商业派强大掌权挺划算的,
用起来的话,感觉公民派执政的效果最好。多多造建筑物、等事件刷建筑物,建筑物越多,公民派越容易当权。
宗教派系只要年年祈祷成功,保持+3稳定,也很容易当权,好操作。
Summary:
你必须在你要哪个派系和元老院要哪个派系取得平衡。You will have to walk a fine line between what faction you want in power and what the Senate wants.
除了民粹派,在游戏的不同士气每个派系当权执政都有他的特定好处。At some point in the game there is an advantage in having each type of faction ruling the senate, except populists.
但是,我发现留一些民粹派席位在有时还有挺不错的。However, I have found a few populist seats in the senate being a benefit at certain times.
例如,当你的派系的席位不再增加或增长放慢了,你可以用民粹派的议员和谈,以征服世界和获得新土地。
For example; when your factions don’t procreate or grow up fast enough. During those lean times you can use a few populists to conquer the world and govern a few provinces.
当你的派系人物越来越多,你可以派民粹派人物去做间谍搞破坏。
When more characters show up in your factions, you can use the populist a second time for subversion diplomacy.
六、元老院派系意见 Faction Opinion 与 通过外交行动
1、元老院派系意见会影响什么:
授予头衔,委任将领以及任命总督、通过决议和法案的支配权在玩家手中,元老院当权派系是无法进行干涉的,他们只会影响外交政策实施的可能性。
2、外交行动的绿色、黄色、红色
绿色就是元老院 派系意见起码60%通过,黄色就是 元老院派系意见 派系意见 40-50%通过 ,红色就是 元老院派系意见 低于40%通过。
执政官可以消耗人气值1强制通过黄色的决策,打打仗举行凯旋仪式人气值就补回来了。红色的没有办法。
Sometimes, the player can still force through a decision, which is marked with a yellow symbol left of the button. However, the Consul will lose some popularity from this.
如果执政官属于元老院当权派系的话,决策都是绿的,反之,一些活动,元老院就会持反对态度,决赛是黄色或者红色。
这是因为派系力量失去平衡时,就有些事不能作。例如,一开始的罗马共和国,所有的外交活动元老院都不同意。
魅力高的执政官在决策上受的掣肘很少,即便他的派系不是当权派。
3、各种外交行动的各派系支持情况
说明: 在执政官人气值100%的情况下,执政官所在派系支持执政官一切外交行动;在执政官人气值0%的情况下,执政官担任派系领袖,所在派系支持执政官一切外交行动;
民粹派反对和谈协议之外的一切外交行动;如果让各个派系领袖都是执政官同个家族,那样更好
在执政官人气值100%的情况下,共和国的各派系支持决策情况如下
1)、宣战:军事派支持、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化弃权,对同文化组支持,对异文化支持)、宗教派(对同国教弃权,对同宗教组支持,对异教支持)
2)、战争分0时和谈:军事派50%反对、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化支持,对同文化组弃权,对异文化50%反对)、宗教派(对同国教支持,对同宗教组弃权,对异教50%反对)
3)、战争分50时和谈:军事派弃权、商业派支持、公民派(对同文化支持,对同文化组50%支持,对异文化弃权)、宗教派(对同国教支持,对同宗教组50%支持,对异教弃权)
4)、战争分100时和谈:军事派50%支持、商业派支持、公民派(对同文化支持,对同文化组支持,对异文化50%支持)、宗教派(对同国教支持,对同宗教组支持,对异教50%支持)
5)、结盟:军事派50%支持、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化支持,对同文化组弃权,对异文化50%反对)、宗教派(对同国教支持,对同宗教组弃权,对异教50%反对)
6)、毁盟:军事派50%支持、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化弃权,对同文化组支持,对异文化支持)、宗教派(对同国教弃权,对同宗教组支持,对异教支持)
7)、保证独立:军事派50%支持、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化支持,对同文化组弃权,对异文化50%反对)、宗教派(对同国教支持,对同宗教组弃权,对异教50%反对)
8)、要军通:军事派支持、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化弃权,对同文化组支持,对异文化支持)、宗教派(对同国教弃权,对同宗教组支持,对异教支持)
9)、给军通:军事派50%反对、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化支持,对同文化组弃权,对异文化50%反对)、宗教派(对同国教支持,对同宗教组弃权,对异教50%反对)
10)、取消要军通:军事派50%反对、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化支持,对同文化组弃权,对异文化50%反对)、宗教派(对同国教支持,对同宗教组弃权,对异教50%反对)
11)、取消给军通:军事派支持、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化弃权,对同文化组支持,对异文化支持)、宗教派(对同国教弃权,对同宗教组支持,对异教支持)
12)、收贡金:军事派50%支持、商业派支持、公民派(对同文化弃权,对同文化组支持,对异文化支持)、宗教派(对同国教弃权,对同宗教组支持,对异教支持)
13)、给贡金:军事派50%反对、商业派弃权、公民派(对同文化50%支持,对同文化组弃权,对异文化50%反对)、宗教派(对同国教50%支持,对同宗教组弃权,对异教50%反对)
14)、取消收他国贡金:军事派50%支持、商业派50%反对、公民派(对同文化50%支持,对同文化组弃权,对异文化50%反对)、宗教派(对同国教50%支持,对同宗教组弃权,对异教50%反对)
15)、取消给他国贡金:军事派支持、商业派支持、公民派(对同文化50%支持,对同文化组支持,对异文化支持)、宗教派(对同国教50%支持,对同宗教组支持,对异教支持)
16)、要贸通:军事派弃权、商业派支持、公民派(对同文化支持,对同文化组支持,对异文化弃权)、宗教派(对同国教支持,对同宗教组支持,对异教弃权)
17)、取消贸通:军事派支持、商业派50%反对、公民派(对同文化弃权,对同文化组弃权,对异文化支持)、宗教派(对同国教弃权,对同宗教组弃权,对异教支持)
18)、开商路:军事派50%支持、商业派支持、公民派(对同文化支持,对同文化组支持,对异文化弃权)、宗教派(对同国教支持,对同宗教组支持,对异教弃权)
19)、支持叛乱:军事派50%支持、商业派支持、公民派(对同文化弃权,对同文化组弃权,对异文化支持)、宗教派(对同国教弃权,对同宗教组弃权,对异教支持)
20)、亵渎圣地:军事派弃权、商业派支持、公民派(对同文化50%反对,对同文化组50%支持,对异文化支持)、宗教派(对同国教50%反对,对同宗教组50%支持,对异教支持)
21)、诱惑总督:军事派50%反对、商业派支持、公民派(对同文化弃权,对同文化组弃权,对异文化支持)、宗教派(对同国教反对,对同宗教组弃权,对异教支持)
22)、暗杀:军事派弃权、商业派支持、公民派(对同文化弃权,对同文化组弃权,对异文化支持)、宗教派(对同国教反对,对同宗教组弃权,对异教支持)
23)、破坏名誉:军事派50%支持、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化50%支持,对同文化组50%支持,对异文化50%支持)、宗教派(对同国教50%支持,对同宗教组50%支持,对异教50%支持)
24)、鼓励不忠:军事派50%支持、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化50%支持,对同文化组50%支持,对异文化50%支持)、宗教派(对同国教50%支持,对同宗教组50%支持,对异教50%支持)
25)、送礼:军事派50%反对、商业派50%支持、公民派(对同文化支持,对同文化组支持,对异文化弃权)、宗教派(对同国教支持,对同宗教组支持,对异教弃权)
4、不同派系支持不同的外交行动总结
1)、军事派议员通过发动战争和要军通的外交行动,反对送礼、给贡金,反对战争分低于50时的和谈协议。
As a rule of thumb, the military faction will approve of declarations of war and oppose poor peace treaties,
2)、商业派议员通过要贸通和开商路的决策,还有支持叛乱、亵渎圣地、诱惑总督、暗杀等间谍决策。 the mercantile faction will approve of more trade,
3)、公民派议员想和同文化的国家搞好关系 the religious faction will want good relations with brothers of the same culture,
4)、宗教派议员想和同国教的国家搞好关系 the religious faction will want good relations with brothers of the faith,
5)、民粹派议员反对一切决策,除了和谈。 and the populists are opposed to almost everything except peace.
5、执政官对派系意见的影响补充
Every political faction has a certain predisposition towards certain actions ("Faction Opinion"). This is then further modified by your ruler being:
1)、执政官和该派系领袖同个家族,会适当提高该派系支持决策的机会。 Part of the same family as the faction leader. This will give you a moderate bonus.
要拼命压制民粹派,扶持自己家族的人当上各个派系的领袖。
2)、执政官和该派系领袖是朋友 ,会稍微提高该派系支持决策的机会。 A friend of the faction leader. This will give you a small bonus.
6、执政官让外交行动在元老院通过的技巧;
执政官一定要100%人气、执政官最好是本派系领袖、尽量把各个派系领袖够搞成本家族、尽量让执政官和各派系领袖做朋友、让执政官所在派系在元老院席位当权
例子:向对某进贡国宣战,但是不取消贡金宣战会掉稳定,外交行动的取消贡金元老院不批准。
解决办法有:或者让现任执政官所在派系在元老院席位最多,或者让元老院当权派的执政官候选人继任;或者不断用各种方法破坏自己与该进贡国友好度,让其自己取消进贡。
I'd check the current balance of power in the senate. Which faction is the strongest? If their leader gets into power and is reasonably popular, you'll be able to do almost anything, so you can try getting that man into the consulship so you can break the tribute.
You can also try damaging your relations with Magna Graecia by supporting rebels and such until they just get so fed up with you that they break the tribute themselves.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/f ... age-4#post-10711491
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