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[日志新闻] Imperator - Development Diary - 17th of December 日志29 贸易,外交距离,不列颠

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黄马褂

发表于 2018-12-17 21:04 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/development-diary-17th-of-december.1139241/
和之前一样,先转日志,翻译会以后附上
本期内容主要是:
1)本作也有外交距离概念,外交距离受到国家等级和科技发明的影响
2)贸易详解:大部分是之前贸易系统日志内容的重述,新东西是出口产生的贸易收入高于国内贸易,同时货物出口也会带来一个与货物留在国内不同的buff,这样确保玩家不会贪图物产加成把所有省份物产留在国内。
3)不列颠地区开局国家详解


Hello and welcome to this weeks developer diary!


Today I will be returning to the matter of Trade, Diplomacy and to the geopolitical setup of the British Isles.

Trade​


Trade is a subject that is integral to this era in many ways. Flow of goods and people over the Mediterranean is the primary reason it was natural for an empire to form around it. This is how this sea could ever conceivably become Mare Nostrum, or “our sea”, to the Romans.

In Imperator Trade is not limited to something you conduct to make money, it also ties into the other systems in the game.

So before I move on to the things we have adjusted with this system I will reiterate what we have touched upon in previous diaries about Trade in Imperator. I will also be using Grain as an example:

​

  • Each city produces one type of Trade Good for your province. -For instance Grain.
  • Having a Trade Good present in a province gives a modifier in that entire province. -Grain gives +0.10% Population Growth.
  • Each of your provinces has a certain number of routes it can use to import goods, and each route can be used to bring in one Trade Good.
  • Having a surplus of a Trade Good in a province gives a small modifier, but one that stacks for each extra unit of surplus. -For each surplus of Grain the Province gets +0.05% Population Growth.
  • Trade Routes can be used to import Trade Goods either making them present in provinces where they are not produced, or to increase the surplus of them, adding to the stacking modifier in the province. -The more Grain you bring in the more Population growth your Province will get.
  • Exporting a Trade Good from a province also requires a surplus in that province.
  • Generating a surplus without importing requires can be done either if your province has more than once city producing the same Trade Good, or if it has 15 slaves in one of its cities. Each group of 15 Slaves will increase the Output of a Trade Good by 1.
  • Surplus of a Trade Good in your capital province gives a national bonus. Capitals have more import routes than other provinces, most notably they gain more from the rank of your country. -Grain gives +10% National Manpower when in surplus in capital.
Trade Good bonuses are dependent on the type of Good and they come in a wide variety. This allows you to tailor your provinces, and even more so your country, to your needs and desires by controlling what you produce and where you ship it.

Last but not least each active Trade Route creates Commerce Income in your province, which may add up to quite a bit of money if you have many active routes.

​


We have divided our Trade Goods into functional categories to reflect their effects:

  • Strategic Goods such as Wood, Iron or Elephants, are required to be present in a province recruit certain types of units there.
  • Military Goods are those that impacts the performance of your Armies.
  • Growth Goods, such as Grain, are Trade Goods that increase Population Growth (and since population size reduces population growth these goods may also be required to maintain population without starvation in very populous regions).
  • Population Goods are Trade Goods that will increase the happiness of your pops, making them more productive and less likely to revolt.
  • Economy & Technology, the last category, provides a variety of bonuses to technology, buildings, tax, commerce, loyalty or civilization level.

By mixing and matching which Trade Goods you import, you can decide what kind of country you want to build.
By importing Strategic and Military goods you could build stronger and cheaper armies.
A mix of Growth and Population Goods would allow you to build a stronger internal economy, with more productive and prosperous population.
Technology boosting goods for greater scientific leaps.

And of course any mix of the above. Some things might not be as obvious, a country that conducts a lot of expansion may well see the need to focus on the Population Goods such as Wine, Olives and Precious Metals, to keep the recently conquered foreign populations happy.

Diplomatic Range
​


The Mediterranean world was in some ways very interconnected, but travel time, reputation and maintaining diplomats for long distance diplomacy for a small country would not have been easy.

In order to conduct most Diplomatic Interactionsexcept for declaring war, military access, and suing for peace, will be limited by your Diplomatic Range.

In order to determine if you are within diplomatic range of another country, your maximum diplomatic range will be compared to the distance between your capital and theirs.

The Maximum Range is modified primarily by how high your Rank is, but it is also modified by inventions. An overlord and a subject will always be considered to be within Diplomatic Range of each other.

Powerful and advanced countries will thus be able to perform far reaching diplomacy, while smaller states will be more limited to their immediate area.


Exports:
​

We only touched briefly on export in the previous diary on trade, and what we did mention has changed. There are no longer any general Trade Access treaties. Rather than making you sign one deal to get access to all the Trade Goods of a country you will now be able to ask any country within diplomatic range to be allowed to import something they have a surplus of.

Likewise other countries will be approaching you for the right to import your Trade Goods.

So why would you agree to export something when there are so many nice benefits from stacking things inside your own country?

​


To start with there is an economic incentive. The amount of Commerce from international trade is much higher than that from internal trade routes. Meaning that exporting can net you much higher income, especially if you do it from somewhere with good modifiers to commerce (such as a province with many high happiness Citizens and Markets).

Secondly there is a fourth modifier to be had for exporting a Trade Good. For Grain, our old example above, this would be +5% National Manpower.

Taken together this means that export is sometimes quite a bit more lucrative than using your own import routes to move Trade Goods around within your own country, though there will of course still be situations where you may prefer not to export a Trade Good that would benefit a neighbor more than you are comfortable with.

The British Isles

Southern Britannia
​

As we move on into territory that is further from the Mediterranean we are now approaching lands of which we know far less. The British isles were by no means unknown to the ancient world, most recently the islands were supposedly visited by Pytheas of Massilia.

Of Pythias works however very little remains, and we only know them from what others have written about them. So for most cases we have had to extrapolate what information we do have backwards.

What we do now, from written sources as well as archaeology, is that the British isles were undergoing a period of growth and wealth. Rich in iron, base metals and even gold, these islands were also good agricultural land and are described as exporting grain and cattle.

Southern Britain would also have been in somewhat close contact with Gaul to the south, commercially as well as politically, and would in time come to receive increasing numbers of Gallic and Belgic tribesmen.


Starting Countries:
​

  • Icenia: Middle size Tribal Kingdom in what would much later be known as Norfolk. Would historically ally with the Romans in their invasion after our timeline. Icenia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Trinovantia: Another middle sized Tribal Kingdom, between Icenia and the Thames. Their prosperous capital Camulodunum has been suggested as a possible site for the legendary Camelot, at our start it was still an insignificant village. Trinovantia starts the game independent and unaligned.
  • Cantiacia: Tribal Kingdom stretching from the Thames to the English Channel. Described by Caesar as a maritime oriented kingdom, with close ties to the Gallic states to the south. Cantiacia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Durotriga: Small Tribal Kingdom of settled agriculturalists on the southern coast of the island. Durotriga starts independent and unaligned.
  • Dumnonia: Tribal kingdom in modern Devon and Cornwall, with an economy based on fishing and tin mining. Tin was so bountiful that it found its way from this region far south, helped by Phoenician merchants from Gadez in southern hispania. Dumnonia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Ordovicia: Tribal Kingdom in the fortified hills of northern Wales. Ordovicia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Demetia: Small Tribal Kingdom in western Wales, etymologically close to the later name Dyfed. Demetia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Deceanglia: Small Tribal Kingdom in northern Wales, a region that would become known for its precious metal mines during Roman Rule. Deceanglia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Siluria: Warlike tribal kingdom in southern Wales. Known later for their resistance to Roman occupation. Siluria starts independent and unaligned.
  • Dubonnia: Large Tribal Kingdom in modern Western England. The Dubonni economy and society is based on agriculture and like many other societies in the British isles and elsewhere guarded their people with hill forts. Dubonnia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Cornovia: Tribal kingdom in the northern midlands, north of Dubonnia. Starts independent and unaligned.
Northern Britannia, Caledonia and Hibernia
​

As in Southern Britannia there are scant sources for this region. The north was only partially subdued by Rome and so we have even less to go on here in some ways.

The southern part of this region is home to the strongest of the Pretani states, while the far north of Caledonia has a number of resilient Pictish kingdoms, in between some unowned (but populated) stretches of land.

As in the south the region had seen the rise of societies around strong hill forts, and is home to a number of growing cities in the Lowlands and Northern England.

Starting Countries:
​

  • Brigantia: Largest Tribal Kingdom in Britain, and at the start also the strongest. Controls all land between the Irish and North Seas. Would remain a substantial power long after Roman conquest. At start Brigantia is independent and unaligned.
  • Parisia: Small tribal kingdom in modern west Yorkshire, part of the Arras culture. Would in time come under considerable influence from Belgic tribesmen who migrated into this region. Parisia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Carvetia: Tribal kingdom to the north of Brigantia, and likely closely related to them. Starts independent and unaligned.
  • Votadinia: Pictish Tribal kingdom in what would become the northern end of Roman Britain, today Southern Scotland and Northern England. Votadinia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Damnonia: Pictish Tribal Kingdom in in the western lowlands. Very little is known of this tribe, which is only attested in Ptolemy’s Geography. Damnonia starts independent and unaligned.
  • Taexalia: Pictish Tribal Kingdom in the highlands. Starts independent and unaligned.
  • Caledonia: Pictish Tribal Kingdom representing the tribes of the northern highlands. Starts isolated, independent and unaligned, at the northern tip of the island.
  • Ulatia: Hibernian Tribal kingdom in Northern Ireland, representing the tribes around the royal center at Navan Fort. Starts independent and unaligned.

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参与人数 1威望 +60 金圆券 +120 小红花 +1 收起 理由
hell--fire + 60 + 120 + 1 你的发言很精彩,谢谢;

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 楼主| 发表于 2018-12-18 21:45 | 显示全部楼层
大家好,欢迎来到本周的开发日志!
今天我们会回到贸易,外交和不列颠群岛的地理政治设定的讲解上。

贸易

贸易是一个从很多方面来说是这一时代的重要组成部分。地中海商品和人口的流通是围绕其建立一个帝国的首要因素,也是地中海无可辩驳地成为罗马人口中的“我们的海”的方式。

在本作,贸易不仅仅是你用来赚钱的手段,它也和游戏中的其他系统有关。

因此在我们开始讲解我们如何调整贸易系统之前,我们首先来回顾一下我们之前的开发日志中所涉及的贸易系统的内容。我会以 谷物(Grain)为例:



每个城市都为你的省份生产一种贸易商品,比如说谷物。
省份中有某种贸易商品会提供一个省份加成。谷物会提供+0.10%的人口增长速度。
你的每个省份都有一定数量的贸易路线可以用来进口商品,每条线路都可以进口1个商品。
在某个省份有盈余(Surplus)的某种贸易商品会提供一个小的加成,每一单位的盈余商品都会叠加一层加成。每单位的盈余谷物会提供+0.05%的人口增长速度。
贸易路线可以用来进口贸易商品,这可以使这种商品在不生产该商品的省份存在以提供加成,或者增加该商品的盈余,来提高叠加的加成。你进口越多的谷物,就可以获得越高的省份人口增长速度。
从一个省份出口某种贸易商品也需要该省份有盈余的该商品。
若不依赖进口来产生盈余,第一种方式是你的省份中有超过一个城市生产同一种商品,第二种方式是省份的某个城市有15个奴隶。每15个奴隶就可以使某个商品的产出+1。
你首都省份贸易商品的盈余会提供一个全国加成。首都比其他省份有更多的进口贸易路线,尤其是他们会从你的国家等级中获得更多的加成。在首都的谷物盈余会提供+10%国家人力修正。
贸易商品加成也根据商品种类的不同而不同,商品的种类有许多。这允许你打造你的省份,甚至是你的国家,通过控制你生产和贸易的商品来满足你的需要

最后,每个使用中的贸易路线会在你的省份中创造商业收入(Commerce Income)。如果你有很多贸易线路,这会带来很多收入。


我们把贸易商品根据作用分类来反映其效果:
-战略商品(Strategic Goods)比如木头,铁或大象,对于在某个省份招募某个种类的单位是必须的。
-军事商品(Military Goods)会影响你军队的表现。
-增长商品(Growth Goods)比如谷物,会提高人口增长速度(由于人口数量增长会降低人口增长速度,需要这些货物来保证在人口稠密的地方的人口不会挨饿)
-人口商品(Population Goods)会提高你pops的幸福度,使他们的生产力更高,同时不那么容易叛乱。
-经济&科技商品(Economy&Technology),最后一个类别,为科技,建筑,税收,商业,忠诚或文明度提供加成。


通过混合匹配你进口商品的种类,你可以决定你想建立起一个什么样的国家

进口战略和军事商品来建立强大而廉价的军队

进口增长和人口商品来建立起强大的内部经济和多产繁盛的人口

科技商品带来更大的科技飞跃

亦或者是以上所有商品的混合。不那么显而易见的是,一个进行大规模扩张的国家会很需要人口商品,比如葡萄酒,橄榄核及贵金属来使新近征服的外国人口幸福。


外交距离


地中海世界从某些方面来说内部联系非常紧密,但对于小国来说,旅行时间,声望和维持外交官都使得维持一个远距离外交不那么容易

除了宣战,军事通行权和议和之外的外交互动都会限制在你的外交距离范围内。

如果你想确定你是不是在某个国家的外交距离范围内,你的最大外交距离会与你的首都和该国首都间的距离进行比较。

最大距离范围主要由你的国家等级修正,但也会被发明修正。宗主国和附庸国之间总是会在彼此的外交距离范围内。

强大而先进的国家因此可以进行远距离外交,而小国会被限制在他的周边范围内。


出口:

我们在之前的有关贸易的日志中只是简单地提到了出口,我们提到的内容也有所改变。现在不再有综合性的贸易进入权协定(Trade Access treaties)。现在你不再会通过签一个协定就可以获取这个国家所有的贸易商品,而是向处于你外交范围的国家请求允许从该国进口它们有盈余的商品。

同样地,其他国家也会向你提出进口你贸易商品的请求

那么你为什么会同意出口这些能带来大量好处的商品,而不是把它们积攒起来呢?


首先,出口有经济利益。国际贸易的商业收入比国内贸易的收入高许多。这意味着出口可以使你获得更高的收入,尤其是从有商业加成的省份出口(比如一个有许多高幸福度公民和市场的省份)
其次,出口某种贸易商品有第四种加成。对于谷物来说,这会带来+5%的国家人力修正。

总的来说,这意味着比起用进口贸易路线在你的国家内部转移商品,出口有时候非常合算,尽管你也肯定会遇到你并不想出口商品来使你并不喜欢的邻居获益的情况。


不列颠南部
当我们把视线远离地中海,我们现在正来到我们知之甚少的群岛。不列颠群岛对于古代世界来说绝不是无人知晓的,按照推测,不列颠群岛最近的访客是马西里亚的皮西亚斯(Pytheas of Massilia)
皮西厄斯(Pythias)的著作只有很小一部分留存,因此我们只能通过他人之叙述来了解它们。因此大多数情况下我们只能通过我们现有的资料推断这之前的信息

就我们现在所知的,根据文字资料以及考古资料,不列颠群岛正处一个繁荣增长的时期。这里有富裕的铁,贱金属,甚至是黄金,还有农田。这里同时也被描述为谷物和牛的出口地

不列颠南部地区应该和南方的高卢人在商业以及政治上有紧密的联系,时机成熟时也会接收不断增长的高卢和比利时部落民。


Icenia:中等规模的部落王国,后来以诺福克为人所熟知。在后来的历史时间线上是罗马人入侵时的盟友。游戏开始时是独立国家。
Trinovantia:另一个中等规模的部落王国,位于Icenia和泰晤士河之间。他们繁荣的首都Camulodunum被认为是传说中Camelot的可能所在地,虽然在我们游戏开始的时候只是一个小村庄。游戏开始时是独立国家。
Cantiacia:占据泰晤士河和英吉利海峡之间土地的部落王国。它被凯撒描述为倾向于海事的王国,与南方的高卢人联系紧密。游戏开始时是独立国家。
Durotriga:位于岛屿南部海岸,由定居的农学家(?)组成的小型部落王国。游戏开始时是独立国家。
Dumnonia:位于如今德文郡和康沃尔郡的部落王国,经济以捕鱼和采锡为主。这里丰饶的锡矿,在伊比利亚南部腓尼基商人的帮助下,被运到遥远的南方。游戏开始时是独立国家。
Ordovicia:位于威尔士北部筑有要塞山丘上部落王国。游戏开始时是独立国家。
Demetia:威尔士西部的小型部落王国,在词源上很接近后来的名字Dyfed。游戏开始时是独立国家。
Deceanglia:威尔士北部的小型部落国家,一个以罗马统治时期的贵金属矿产地而闻名的地区。游戏开始时是独立国家。
Siluria:威尔士南部好战的部落国家,后来以抵抗罗马人的占领为名。游戏开始时是独立国家。
Dubonnia:位于现代英格兰西部的大型部落国家。Dubonni的经济和社会和其他不列颠群岛的国家一样基于农业,但不同的是他们用山丘上的要塞保卫它的人民。游戏开始时是独立国家。
Cornovia:中部地区北方的部落王国,位于Dubonnia的北方。游戏开始时是独立国家。


不列颠北部,加勒多尼亚和爱尔兰


跟不列颠南部地区一样,这个地区的资料也很少。北部地区并未完全被罗马征服,因此我们可用的资料在一些方面上变得更少了。

这个地区的南部是Pretani最强大国家的领土,而遥远的加勒多尼亚北方则有许多坚韧的Pitctish王国,它们之间则有一片狭长的未占领(但有人居住)的土地。

和南方一样,这个地区同样也在山丘堡垒周围发展出了许多群落,也有许多成长中的低地和北英格兰城市。


以上就是本周的开发日志。

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参与人数 1威望 +100 金圆券 +200 小红花 +2 收起 理由
Lysten + 100 + 200 + 2 感谢你提供了宝贵的共享。

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发表于 2018-12-18 22:38 | 显示全部楼层
可怕,这次p社细化的可以,看地图我的cpu不知道吃不吃得住
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P社游戏达人	大设计师勋章国庆节建军节植树节建国日勋章

发表于 2018-12-19 00:14 | 显示全部楼层
感觉这代的贸易对比上代换汤不换药
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发表于 2018-12-19 11:26 | 显示全部楼层
贸易还是比上代细化了不少,只有盈余才能出口也更真实,富足商品留在国内或出口二选一的设定也很好,外交距离也很好,只是首都商品提供全国加成不太真实
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发表于 2018-12-19 12:24 | 显示全部楼层
guqi5 发表于 2018-12-19 11:26
贸易还是比上代细化了不少,只有盈余才能出口也更真实,富足商品留在国内或出口二选一的设定也很好,外交距 ...

这个盈余怎么算,应该有使用才有盈余一说,但使用量怎么算,是按人口?我觉得不可能做得那么细,最大的可能就是,保存就是使用,省份里面有2个或以上就是盈余,就可以出口。所以这样还是不真实,换汤不换药。只不过是上一代的地区变成了这一代的省份。首都商品提供全国加成倒还算好,要知道罗马或者迦太基首都的实力占了国家的一大部分,这点也算是差不多接近历史。
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发表于 2018-12-19 16:35 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 guqi5 于 2018-12-19 16:41 编辑

看日志的解释是每个省有几个城市,每个城市正常情况下生产1单位商品,每个省份消耗1单位商品,当省份有2个或以上城市生产该单位商品或者某城市奴隶人口超过15或者某城市有进口该单位商品就会产出超过1单位商品,多余的部分产生盈余,使用量应该是每个省消耗一单位,加入了产出和使用数量的概念,好歹比一代真实些吧,一代只有贸易路线数量的概念,另外,这作的贸易路线似乎是以省为单位来进行,这样的话,操作量应该不会比前作增加多少
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P社游戏达人	大设计师勋章国庆节建军节植树节建国日勋章

发表于 2018-12-20 08:31 | 显示全部楼层
guqi5 发表于 2018-12-19 16:35
看日志的解释是每个省有几个城市,每个城市正常情况下生产1单位商品,每个省份消耗1单位商品,当省份有2个 ...

我的理解也是这样,关键是这样也不够真实,比如说谷物,人口更多的话消耗量应该也更大才是,如果能把消耗和人口挂钩起来这才真正真实了。另外一个古代贸易,运输成本很高,应该是收益随着距离的递增减少,如果加入这个会真实些。还有一代的一个大弊病就是贸易操作太繁复。这代还是没有从根本上解决这个问题。如果能像全战那样国与国的自动贸易或者像欧陆4那样贸易路线的自动贸易会好些。只能等未来dlc慢慢完善吧
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发表于 2018-12-20 09:06 | 显示全部楼层
只要做出了消耗的设定,后续mod应该能实现消耗与人口挂钩吧,另外也有外交距离的设定,后续mod应该也能实现贸易收益与距离挂钩,至于贸易操作,目前唯一可知的就是以省为单位来操作,至于如何操作还不知,或许会是智能化操作
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发表于 2018-12-24 18:31 | 显示全部楼层
转到这个帖子正好看见第30篇日志出了
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黄马褂

发表于 2019-1-18 21:08 | 显示全部楼层
为啥蔬菜是军事贸易品?
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