开个帖子记录P社论坛 Imperator：Rome 板块开发者透露的信息不定期更新

leafzxg · 发表于 2018-5-30 08:57

本帖最后由 hell--fire 于 2019-2-25 16:23 编辑

作为精神罗马人，P社刚开始有这游戏蛛丝马迹的时候我就开始关注了，果然不出所料，欧陆罗马的续作 Imperator：Rome 公布，兴奋之余，我打算开个帖记录一下P社论坛里开发者在平时的交流中透露出来关于这游戏内容的蛛丝马迹。不定期更新（贴吧同步更新）。

首先是PDXCON正式公布这游戏之前P社论坛发布的8篇预告：

Johan -

Teaser #1 - Is it popular demand?
提示1：它是众望所归吗？

Teaser #2 - Johan Andersson is the gamedirector and designer of this game.
提示2：Johan Andersson 是这款游戏总监和设计师。
Johan 还在帖后表示自己从第一天就投入到了这个游戏的开发中（I've been with this project from day #1）

Teaser #3 - There will be minorities.
提示3：游戏里会有少数民族。
Johan 还在帖后表示自己负责设计过Vic2的政治和POPs系统（On V2, I was in charge of the project, and designed the politics and pops system.）

Teaser #4 - Spelling the name of the game is rather easy.
提示4：游戏名称的拼写相当简单。

Teaser #5 - The amount of each goods produced is important.
提示5：每一份商品产出都很重要。

Teaser #6 - Religion is present, but not the most important aspect.
提示6：宗教是存在的，但不重要。

Teaser #7 - There is no Norway on the map....
提示7：地图里没有挪威....

Teaser #8 - Tomorrow its time for the bard!
提示8：明天是吟游诗人的时间！（这是游戏公布前一天发的帖子）

leafzxg · 发表于 2018-5-30 10:13

本帖最后由 leafzxg 于 2018-5-30 14:29 编辑

此楼用于更新2018年5月1日~2018年5月31日的信息

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网友发帖-

New engine?
Clausewitz 2 was created in 2011. It's a bit old. Will they use a new engine? What do you think?
新引擎？
Clausewitz 2 已于2011开始使用。现在有点老了。他们会使用新引擎吗？你怎么认为？

Groogy-

We had this discussion time and time again. So the well established facts for all that are new. Pds got away from discreet versions and continously develop their engine. Clausewitz wouldnt really benefit from 64 bit cause lack in memory is nearly never a problem. Clausewitz uses multiple cores as best as possible for pds employees and the functioning of the game.
So you could say every new game will use a newer engine than its predecessor and Innovation within the engine will eventually trickle down. But there will not be sth like THE clausewitz 3.0
我们一次又一次地讨论了这个问题。事实是，PDS在不断地开发他们的引擎。 Clausewitz不会真正从64位获益，因为内存不足几乎从来都不是问题。 pds员工可以用Clausewitz实现多核运行游戏的功能。
可以说每一款新游戏都会使用比它的前作更新的引擎，而引擎的的更新也会越来越少。但是暂时不会有clausewitz 3.0。

This post pretty much.
此贴终结。
Though memory has been a problem at occasion, but that has nothing to do with the engine just me effing up at one point :rolleyes:
尽管内存是个问题，但这与引擎无关，这点上我做了一些微小的工作。
Our target for memory requirement/resolutions, etc. are however more set on what our customer base has in order to not try and cut out tons of players.
然而，我们对内存方面问题解决方更多地取决于我们的客户群，以避免大量玩家流失。
On versioning, only CK2 and EU4 sit on versioned clausewitz branches. Clausewitz 2 and 4(started on 3) respectively. HOI4 sits on an offshoot of the bleeding edge one for some archaic reason. Stellaris is on the bleeding edge but they do not utilize all new features we've developed yet

在引擎版本方面，只有CK2和EU4拥有各自独立的Clausewitz分支版本。由于一些古老的原因（跳票），HOI4使用的Clausewitz版本比较边缘化。 Stellaris使用最前沿的Clausewitz，但它们并未利用我们开发的所有新功能。

Groogy-

How possible (not how likely) would be a CK2/EU4 Remaster on the Bleeding Edge branches of Clausewitz used in Stellaris/HoI IV? 用Stellaris/Hoi4的新引擎重制CK2/EU4是否可行？

There wouldn't be any benefit of doing it so really low. Even if we did it there would be no difference more than the programmers being a little bit happier.
这样做真的很低效，没有任何好处。即使我们这样做了，也不会有任何提升。

Having a newer engine won't make things faster or look nicer magically.
拥有更新的引擎不会让游戏变得更快，或变得更美观。
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网友发帖-

Will this be another Sengoku or MotE?
We all know that Sengoku was a prototype for CK2 and MotE for EU4, which meant that, aside for a few patches to clean up the game's bugs, they were abandoned quickly by the studio.
Are we seeing another case of this type of game? Or is this game gonna get some DLC and years long love??
这会是另一个战国/雄鹰进军吗？
我们都知道，战国是CK2的试水作、雄鹰进军是EU4的试水作，这意味着，除了一些补丁来清理游戏的bug之外，他们很快就被工作室抛弃了。
我们现在看到的这个游戏是试水作吗？这个游戏会有更多DLC和持续多年的关注和更新吗？

Johan-
No. Its a huge game project
不，这是一个大型的游戏计划。
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网友发帖-

I'm a little concerned about Iberia
Looking at this map it looks like most of Iberia will be a wasteland, like the Sahara desert.
I really hope, that this is just terra incognita, and we have to discover most of interior Iberia, or is this actually an impassable wasteland?

我有点担心伊比利亚
预览地图，看起来大部分伊比利亚内陆是一片荒地，就像撒哈拉沙漠一样。
我真的希望，这只是未知的。伊比利亚内陆是需要探索还是不可逾越？

Johan-
Current internal version looks really different now.
现在的内部版本已经有很大的改变了

Trin Tragula-
Just to clarify another thing: white = not owned by anyone. White does not mean it’s impassable and unsettlable necessarily.
只是为了澄清另一件事：白色=不属于任何人。白色并不意味着它必然是不可逾越的。

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网友发帖-

Why I think 303/304 is the wrong start date
我认为303/304不适合作为开始日期

Trin Tragula-
Here are some things we like about the 304 start and why we moved it from the pyrrhic war start in the previous game:
Successor struggles far from settled: Antigonus is still alive and has the support of many of the Greek cities. Strong, and in some ways popular, but with more or less all the other successors against him. You still have a window to change history here, Antigonus is still quite old however and even if something like Ipsos might not happen he can’t live forever. Meanwhile both he and other successors have started naming themselves kings and looking for how to secure their legacies, even if they can’t reforge the empire of Alexander.
Mauryas and Seleucids still have to decide on how to proceed in their conflict in the east. The eastern satrapies are effectively in Mauryan hands and how that conflict is settled will (and did) have an impact on the war in the west.
Rome is strong but not too strong. We are basically starting around the end of the 2nd samnite war and Rome is not in a bad position. There is still a lot of work to do however in unifying Italy and defeating Carthage. As this is a game about republican Rome we wanted you to feel you actually build the state the world came to know.
Returning to India the Mauryas are strong but have not yet expanded south of the borders of the Nandas. They have other things to do than just fighting Seleukos.
以下关于我们选定以304做为开始日期的一些信息，以及为什么我们不从亚帝东征开始：
继业者战远没有解决：Antigonus 仍然活着，并得到了许多希腊城邦的支持。他强大，并在某种程度上是受欢迎的，但与其他继业者或多或少都有冲突。你仍然有机会改变历史，但是Antigonus已经很老了，即使像伊普斯之战(the Ipsos Battle)这样的事情不会发生，他也无法永远活下去。与此同时，他和其他继业者都各自称王，并寻求世，即使他们无法重建亚历山大帝国。
孔雀王朝和塞琉古须决定他们在东方的冲突如何收场。东部的各个总督行省（satrapy）被孔雀王朝控制，这种冲突如何解决将会（并且确实）对西方的战争产生影响。
罗马强大，但不是非常强大。此时第二次布匿战争已经结，罗马开局并没有处于不利的位置。然而在统一意大利和击败迦太基方面还有很多工作要做。由于这是一部关罗马共和国的游戏，我们希望你能从中感受到历史的行程。
回到印度，孔雀王朝很强大，但尚未扩张到Nandas南部边界。除了与塞琉古王朝的战事，他们还有其他的事情要处。

Trin Tragula-
The fact that we cover almost the entire Hellenistic era makes me happy
事实上，我们为游戏能够囊括整个希腊化时代感到高兴
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网友发帖-

I love the map
我爱这个地图风格

Johan-
Currently Imperator runs far faster and quicker than the previous games.
This new version of Clausewitz with the Jomini layer is really awesome
目前Imperator比以前的游戏运行速度更快。
带有Jomini图层优化的这个新版本Clausewitz引擎真的很棒。
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网友发帖-

Just scrap india
Simply put, just scrap India, except for the penjab/kashmir areas.
I think the CK2 version of India was already a warning that :
Technical consideration :
1) it bloats the game engine
Historical consideration :
2) For the antiquity Time period, India wasn't military relevant to the middle-east and the mediterranean areas
Gameplay consideration :
3) Geographically, India just stays where it is and isn't expansionist
If you want to make a completely optional India mod, China mod or whatever, it's fine !
Just don't bloat the main rome-centric game with irrelevant cultures who only barely had commercial ties with the mediterannean.

应该去除印度
简而言之，除了penjab / kashmir地区之外，应该去除印度。
我认为加入印度在CK2中的表现已经是一个警告：
技术方面：
1）它加重了游戏引擎的负担
历史考虑：
2）在古代，印度与中东和地中海地区没有军事联系
游戏性考虑：
3）在地理上，印度趋向维持固有边界而不是扩张版图
如果你想制作一个完全可选的印度MOD，中国MOD或任何其他MOD，这很好！
只是不要把那些与罗马文明几乎没有关联的无关文明的加入到以罗马为主角的游戏中，这样过于臃肿。

Trin Tragula-
Won’t happen.
Also India and the conflict the Seleucids and Mauryas were in at the start of our game period played a major role in the war of the Greek successors
这不可取。
在印度，塞琉古王朝和孔雀王朝的冲突在我们的游戏开始时代的继业者战争中起着重要的影响。
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网友发帖-

Has it actually been confirmed whether or not individual pops have culture and religion?
From the screenshot, it doesn't look like there's much depth to the pops besides their type and how many of them there are. Of course, I could be completely wrong, maybe clicking the pop type brings up a more in-depth view. What worries me more is that the province itself has a designated culture and religion. Unless this is showing the majority religion of all the pops, it seems like pops either don't have individual cultures and religion, or simply take the one of the province they're located in.

确认下POPs是否可以拥有自己的文化和宗教?
从预告图来看，除了POPs的类型以外，它们看起来并没有太多的深度。当然也可能是我误解了，也许点击POPs类型会带来更深入的内容。更让我担心的是，该省本身显示了它的文化和宗教。除非这是显示的是大多数POPs的宗教，否则POPs似乎没有独立的文化和宗教，或者只是跟随它们所在的省份的文化宗教。

Trin Tragula-
Individual pops can absolutely have their own culture and religion.
You can have a city with 3 slave pops that are all of different culture/religion from each other.

POPs当然可以可以拥有自己的文化和宗教。
例如你的一个城市可以拥3种不同文化宗教的奴隶POPs。
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网友发帖-

Formable nations and tribes？
Will there be a chance to form other nations, like Dacia ? or other Italian cultures form Rome?
If you can form other nations what the requirements will be, like in HOI 4 where only some specific nations can form it or like in eu4 where you can pretty much form everything you like.
Can you reform a barbarian tribe, like the Thracians or Celts or Germans, to become a prosperous civilized nation like Greek city-states ?

可否成立国家和部落？
是否有机会成立其他国家，比如达西亚？或者其他意大利文化的国家成立罗马？
如果能成立其他国家，又有什么必要条件呢，是像HOI4那样只有一些特定的国家可以成立，或像EU4那样可以随意成立任国家？
或者能否改革像色雷斯人、凯尔特或日耳曼人这种蛮族部落，使其成为类希腊城邦一样的繁荣、文明的国家吗？

Arheo-
Byzantium will actually be a choosable starting tag...
拜占庭其实是一个可以选择的初始tag...
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网友发帖-

"It's mainly a map painter"
”这游戏大体是个填色游戏“
There's a new Q&A on reddit with someone from IGN who had a chance to interview the developers. What stuck out most for me was this exchange:
在reddit的一个Q&A，来自IGN的人有机会采访开发者，这其中对我来说最困惑的是：

How interesting are peace time economy/social mechanics? Can you imagine playing it as a pacifist state and having as much power and fun as Victoria 2 allows?

和平时代的经济/社会机制有多有趣？你能想象扮演和平主义者的统治者，得到类似维多利亚2中一样的力量和乐趣吗？

Based on what Johan has said, it's mainly a map painter. But there are some styles of gameplay discussed besides conquest. For instance, barbarians can use their raiding CB to bring money and slave POPs back from the fertile lands to build up their base of power. And colonization is in as well, see my other comments

根据Johan的说法，这主要是一个填色游戏。但是除了征服之外，还有一些有待商定的游戏风格。例如，野蛮人可以使用他们的劫掠CB从肥沃的土地上带回钱和奴隶POPs来巩固他们的权势。殖也是如此，请参阅我的其他评论。

"Mainly a map painter" is a little disheartening. I really was hoping for strong domestic gameplay. Building a great empire through conquest is a little hollow if ruling a great empire isn't any fun. Just my opinion. What does everyone else think about this?
“主要是填色游戏”有点令人沮丧。我真的希望这游戏有强大的内政系统。如果仅仅通过征服来建立一个庞大的帝国是有点空洞的。只是我的观点，其他人对此有何看法？

Johan-
HoI4, Vicky2, EU4 are all map-painters!
HoI4, Vicky2, EU4 都是填色游戏！（Agree Agree x 84 Respectfully Disagree Respectfully Disagree x 60 Helpful Helpful x 10）

Johan-
HoI3, HoI2, Hoi1 are also map-painting games. Thats what a PDS game is about .
HoI3, HoI2, Hoi1 也都是填色游戏。这是PDS游戏的本质属性！（Respectfully Disagree Respectfully Disagree x 58 Agree Agree x 44 Helpful Helpful x 3）

Arheo-
For those who may be confused at this point, the beta programme has not yet begun - nor will it, until we have left appreciable time for applicants to express.
对于那些在这一点上可能会感到困惑的人来说，测试计划还没有开始，我们会留下可观的时间处理这些让大家感到满意。
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网友发帖-

Greece and southern Italy have over 50 countries
The country density is high in Imperator, at least in this area.希腊和意大利南部有超过50个国家
Imperator的国家密度很高，至少在这个地区。

Johan-

Ans some of those countries are bigger than a simple province as well, Macedonia probably have over 6 provinces with how tiny some are in Italy.

其中一些国家比一个简单省份还要大，马其顿可能有6个省份，其中有些省份在意大利。

About 60 "provinces" as you'd define them in older games.

大约60个“省份”，你会在游戏中找到它们。
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网友发帖-

Hmm... you might be right, but how do you know it will span 300 years? It proabably will, but I didn't see the end-date confirmed yet.
Also, true the map is much bigger than just Europe, but that's because the Game recreates Rome. You honestly can't play any massive Empire of that Period in a simmilar manner. There is no way to Recreate Egypt at it's height, because it wen't further south.
You can't do the Empire of Alexander the Great or Perssia.

嗯......你可能是对的，但你怎么知道它会跨越300年？它可能会，但我没有看到确定的结束日期。
另外，地图确实比欧洲大得多，但那是因为游戏重现了罗马。你真的不能以类似的方式玩这个时期的任何巨大的帝国，你不能恢复鼎盛时期的埃及，因为地图不再南扩。
你不能恢复亚历山帝国或波斯帝国。

Trin Tragula-
I’m not sure what maps you have been looking at but the imperator map ends around Burma in the east and Ethiopia in the south. You can certainly reach as far as any Egyptian or Persian state I’ve ever heard of and far more than Alexander ever conquered
In fact the map covers a larger part of the world than ck2 did at release.
An end date at the historical end of the republic or roughly around 300 years has also been confirmed many times

我不确定你一直在看什么地图，但是大地图在东方可达缅甸和南方可达的埃塞俄比亚。你一定能够恢复我所听说过的埃及或波斯或任何一个国家，远远超过亚历山大征服过的

事实上，地图覆盖的世界范围上比ck2发布时更。
结束日期是罗马共和国在历史上结束的日期，大约300年可供游玩。