英白拉多:罗马 周日研发小日志 May 5th 2019
本帖最后由 cools0812 于 2019-5-5 23:49 编辑Imperator - Sunday Morning Design Corner - May 5th 2019https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/imperator-sunday-morning-design-corner-may-5th-2019.1174494/
作者:Johan
Hello!
大家好！
It is been a rocky launch in some aspects, with part of the community unhappy. While it is not Hoi3, there are still issues, and I want to make sure you understand that we are looking at them.
这次的发售过程有点惊心动魄，玩家群体中有一部分人很不高兴。尽管事情还没有差到《钢铁雄心3》发售时的程度，的确存在着一些问题，我希望能确保玩家们明白我们正在密切关注这些问题。
Technical Issues
技术问题
It looks like we have addressed most of the incompatibility issues, and that the game had heavy stuttering on some machines. It is something we will continue to fix immediately as they prop up.
目前看起来兼容性问题大部分已经得到修复，不过游戏在某些特定硬件上依然会严重卡顿。我们会持续观察和修复这类问题。
Barebones Games
半成品/缺乏内容
This is the feedback that I just do not understand. I took everything we had in Rome I, and made every mechanic deeper and more complex, while adding lots more new mechanics to make it into a game. This game was developed the same way we did EU4 and HOI2, the previous games I’ve been most satisfied with, where we used all the original gameplay code of the previous game, and just built upon that.
我真的无法理解这类反馈。我把《欧陆风云：罗马》中所有的东西都搬了过来，并将其中每项机制都改的更有深度，更加复杂，同时又加入了很多新的机制。本作的开发模式和欧陆风云4与钢铁雄心2完全一致，而这两作是我个人最满意的：把前作的游戏代码拿过来，并在其之上进行开发。
I’ve not cut away anything when making Imperator to add into future expansions, and every game-mechanic, and lots more, we had planned was in the original 1.0.
本作中没有任何功能被切割开来为DLC预留，所有的游戏机制和内容都是我们在1.0版本原本就计划要做的。
I have said before launch that this is the best game I’ve made, and I stand by it still. 1.0 of Imperator is the best 1.0 we have ever made of a game.
发售前我说过这是我做过的最好的游戏，现在我依然坚持这一点。英白拉多的1.0是我们做过的最好的1.0。
Missing UI / Bad UX
用户界面缺失/烂
I agree that there are things in the UI that is suboptimal. Some screens are bigger than they could be, like the province interface, and some do not have all the information you may need. We are all working on improving that. Some UI I deemed as optional as we ran lower on time, and I wanted to prioritise the gameplay experience, so those will come in patches.
我同意用户界面里有些东西不是特别尽人意。有些菜单过大了，比如行省界面，有些菜单不包含所有玩家可能需要的信息。我们在改进这些问题。由于时间紧迫，有些用户界面问题的改进优先级不会排在改善游戏体验前面，所以下列问题需要分几个补丁来解决。
[*]Multiplayer Chat will eventually come, but not in 1.1
[*]多人游戏聊天界面最终会有的，不过不会在1.1加入
[*]Ledger, I regret cutting it, but there will be a first version in 1.1
[*]我挺后悔删去了统计表单功能的，1.1会加入它的第一个版本
[*]Macrobuilding functionality: While we hadn’t planned diplomatic or army template macrobuilder for 1.0, we should have focused on having better interface for impact of what you are building.
[*]宏观建造界面：虽然我们不打算在1.0版本加入外交或军队模块快速建造功能，但造建筑将产生的效果会在宏观建造界面得到更直观的显示。
[*]Colonisation & Pop Management. It is functional, but not optimal. We definitely need to improve here.
[*]殖民和人口操作：目前能玩，但不是最好的解决方案，肯定要继续改进。
Here is a small peek at a work in progress UI...
偷偷泄一张制作中的新界面....
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?attachments/ux_tweak-png.477928/
Bad AI
AI烂
Ironically, this is the game we spent the most resources in writing AI for, both in time and people. Instead of a basically reactive AI, that had no goal, and reusing old mechanics, we decided to write this AI as a new proactive system working with plans.
很讽刺的是，本作是我们开发过的游戏中花了最多的人力和时间才制作出的AI。本作采用的不再是漫无目的的刺激反射式AI，而是新的会执行其计划目标的主动式AI。
I understand that effort and intent is not the same as result, but AI was something we did focus a lot on.
我明白努力和态度不等于结果，但AI的确是我们用心去做了的。
Power / Abstracted Currencies
点数/抽象化货币
I understand that there is a part of the community that dislike abstracted currencies like prestige, monarch power, influence or political power, they do make it into games that are possible to balance and
我明白玩家社群中有一部分人不喜欢诸如威望，君主点数，影响力和政治力量等抽象化货币，而且（？？下面真的没有了.....等johan什么时候发现自己漏打了一行字我再补翻译）
In 1.1, with us adding stability, war exhaustion, aggressive expansion and tyranny to the price structure, you could make a really good mod, replacing all power costs with impacts on those attributes. Such a mod could also completely make the instant culture conversion of a pop cost tyranny instead, making it something you do not want to do in bulk, or you could make changing an idea cost 5 stability, which is not much in direct cost, but limits you in other ways.
在1.1版本中，我们把稳定度，厌战度，AE和暴政度加入了脚本能增减的变量，使有心人能够做个mod，用对以上数值的影响替代所有操作的点数消耗。举例来说，可以让瞬间转pop文化的操作增加暴政度而不是消耗点数，让玩家不会大批量的秒转文化。更换理念的操作可以降低5点稳定度，不直接消费资源但依然对玩家起到限制作用。
The base game will continue to use these currencies, as they make for a better game, but I acknowledge that there is a group of people who dislike them, and prefer another experience, so we will improve the game, to be able to support it.
游戏原版还是会继续使用点数，因为这样做出来的游戏更好玩。不过我承认有一群人不喜欢这样的设计，更偏爱没有点数的游戏体验，所以我们改进了游戏让这样的mod得以实现。
Lack of Flavor
缺乏特色
There has been a lot of feedback of the game about how most countries just feel the same to play, and there are no variations. While most people appreciate that there is enough difference between settled tribes, migratory tribes, monarchies and republics, there is not much difference between the different tribes other than their starting location.
有许多反馈抱怨本作中的所有国家玩起来都感觉一个样，没有什么区别。虽然大部分玩家都感觉到定居部落，迁徙部落，君主制和共和制之间有足够的区别，两个不同的部落的游戏体验之间除了出生位置外并没有什么不同。
While we did not view this is a flaw, we hear you, and will add some distinct flavor to 1.1, some new to our games, and some familiar.
我们并不认为这是个瑕疵，但还是听取了玩家的意见并将在1.1加入一些国家特有风味，有些是P社游戏中的新东西，有些则是大家可能感到很熟悉的机制。
First of all, we are adding bonuses to each religion, so that different religions have different impacts. That in itself does not make the game suddenly great, but it gives a bit more flavor.
首先，每个宗教将会有自己的独特加成，所有每种宗教会有不同的影响。光这一点不会让游戏一下子变得很好玩，但能带来一点特色。
Secondly, we are diversifying Omens, so that different religions, or even different countries can have unique omens for them. We will go into more details on this soon.
其次，我们在为不同的宗教，不同的国家制作独有的预兆。这一点我们以后会深入详谈。
Finally, we are adding something we call Heritages to countries. This is something they start with, which gives 2 bonuses and 1 drawback. There will be lots of “generic” heritages for countries, which depends on their geography, but we aim to add as many unique ones as possible in 1.1, and then keep adding them.
最后，我们会加入被称为“遗产”的国家特色修正。每个国家开局会有2个buff和1个debuff。大部分国家会有根据地理位置的路人“遗产”，但我们会在1.1加入尽可能多的特有国家遗产，并在以后持续增加更多。
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?attachments/heritage-png.477932/
Percieved Shallowness
被认为缺乏深度
A lot of the things that happens has not been visible enough to the player, like you don’t see the things characters do with each other. This will be changed for 1.1, where you will be able to always see what a character is up to, besides just an ambition.
本作中很多每时每刻在发生的事情是玩家无法清楚观察到的，比如角色间互动。1.1会改变这一点，除了一个简单的野心玩家还将看到角色的意图和行为。
Another thing is that the game has been tuned so a lot of the mechanics is not required to think about, especially when you are a big power. I’ve seen a lot of comments about how great the game is when you play smaller, compared to Rome where you just rofl-stomp everything, and don’t have to care about any challenges. One thing we are reworking in 1.1, is how a characters “power base” is calculated, which is the amount of troops, holdings, wealth or territory he or she may hold, and that power base will have much more impact.
另一个问题是本作中很多机制不需要玩家思考就能操作，特别是扮演大国的时候。我看到很多留言都说玩小国比玩罗马这样的大国毫无挑战一路平推要有趣多了。1.1中我们在重制的是一个角色的“实力基础”的计算方式，这指的是某角色拥有的的私兵，地产，财富和地盘，“实力基础”将对各种游戏机制造成比现在多得多的影响。
Content
内容
It is hard to compare content between various games, but Imperator shipped with the same amount of events as Victoria 2 with expansions, and more than any game had at release besides CK2.
想比较不同游戏之间的内容多少是很困难的，不过英白拉多发售时包含的事件数量和维多利亚2+全DLC还要多，也比除了CK2 1.0以外我们发布过的所有1.0都要多。
We also had more character interactions than CK2 at release, and a similar amount of diplomatic actions and relations as EU4 had at release.
相比发售时的CK2，本作也有更多角色互动，与发售时的EU4相比外交行动和关系类型的数量也是基本一致的。
Of course, when you have been playing games that have 5-10k of events,dozens upon dozens of unique systems, any new game, no matter how much content they have, will feel light.
当然了，当你们玩惯了那些有5000-10000个事件数十个特殊机制的游戏的时候，任何新游戏——不管包含了多少内容——都会显得缺少分量。
We will continue to add more content at each update, with a nice chunk on focus on Italy in 1.1, but it will take years of expansions and patches until Imperator reaches
我们还会在每次更新持续加入更多内容，1.1补丁中会集中于意大利地区，但还需要好几年的更新和扩展包才能让英白拉多的容量赶上（？这里又断了.....）
Cheers everyone, and tomorrow Trin Tragula will show off what we have been doing for 1.1.
各位再见，明天Trin Tragula将会展示我们的1.1开发进度。
/Johan
{:4_150:}总结下大概就是，玩家的口味怎么那么刁了？我没预料到啊？不能怪我 你听听这说的还是人话吗（
真的气死玩家，steam好评率为啥40不到心里没点那什么数吗。 {:4_111:}以后Johan主导的P社游戏不会再玩了{:4_182:}啥态度啊，现在真后悔当初预购豪华版，做得好不好是能力问题，想不想做好是态度问题，更别说怼玩家了 p社还在逃避责任啊,....无语 等于说点数秒转文化转教这个设定是不准备变了？
毕竟是光明的古典时代啊，同样是点数到了殖民时代转一个省的文化也得等个5年左右吧。转教更是又慢又花钱。
但还需要好几年的更新和扩展包才能让英白拉多的容量赶上（？这里又断了.....）
{:4_150:}你特么自己都说还要好几年的更新……还不承认是半成品…… 我不相信多數玩家喜歡點數制 “这届玩家不行” johan每次发帖的态度都特别拽 看到johan还把eu4的点数系统当宝也是醉了，虽然点数系统粗暴简单，但一个游戏设计者得明白游戏体验和代入感才是最重要的。 Sabbah 发表于 2019-5-6 13:34
等于说点数秒转文化转教这个设定是不准备变了？
毕竟是光明的古典时代啊，同样是点数到了殖民时代转一个 ...
上个还是上上个开发日志好像提到了这个设定要变得。。但具体要怎么变还是个问题 p社这次自己没做出出色的游戏，还甩锅这届玩家不行 承认这个游戏就是杂糅的垃圾产品有这么难吗？还甩锅给玩家？难道游戏不应该一作比一作更加完善和优质？难道就应该把游戏拆开卖才是对的？ 本帖最后由 wangtao1979 于 2019-5-13 18:36 编辑
我艹，这还能震惊，嫌弃玩家口味太叼，自己没玩过游戏吗。
而且欧陆罗马本来就不好玩。感觉这群人做了这么久的游戏，都还不会做游戏一样。
This is the feedback that I just do not understand. I took everything we had in Rome I, and made every mechanic deeper and more complex, while adding lots more new mechanics to make it into a game. This game was developed the same way we did EU4 and HOI2, the previous games I’ve been most satisfied with, where we used all the original gameplay code of the previous game, and just built upon that.
我真的无法理解这类反馈。我把《欧陆风云：罗马》中所有的东西都搬了过来，并将其中每项机制都改的更有深度，更加复杂，同时又加入了很多新的机制。本作的开发模式和欧陆风云4与钢铁雄心2完全一致，而这两作是我个人最满意的：把前作的游戏代码拿过来，并在其之上进行开发。
笑屎
果然p社就是抄了一遍eu罗马 然而eu罗马本身就是个烂尾的作品…………
还和eu4完全一致，eu4咋回事心里不能有点b数 说实在的p社那半成品出来卖然后不停地卖dlc我本身是不反对的，毕竟小作坊也要吃饭还要放假不是吗，但是好歹拿出来点诚意正视自己的问题，像这样明明拿ea卖然后还装作自己准备很充分就很恶心人了 等吧，等几个大型DLC以后就好了。
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